Speaker 1:

Integrity is everything. Our way of life in this country rises and falls on the integrity of our leaders, and the integrity of our infrastructure. Because integrity impacts everything, this is The Integrity Podcast. Powered by Exo. Hosted by Zachary Oliphant.

Zachary Oliphant:

Welcome everybody to another episode of the Integrity Podcast. I’m honored today to have an unbelievable guest and a very close friend of mine, Garrett Ehler. Little heads up on who Garrett is and Garrett’s background. Garrett Ehler is a graduate of Baylor University in Waco, Texas with dual degrees in environmental science and psychology. He is one of the founding employees of Exo, a Houston-based inspection firm, focused on maintaining infrastructure for critical industries.

Zachary Oliphant:

Garrett was also an owner and founder of Texas Nondestructive Testing Academy, founded 2015, which provides Level III services, procedure development, and a variety of NDT programs as well as training for nondestructive testing inspectors. For the last 12 plus years, Garrett has been a leader at Exo, as a vice president of career development, continuous improvement, and overseeing our wood services business.

Zachary Oliphant:

As Exo’s ASNT and ACCP Level III, Garrett manages the team’s NDT program and is responsible for procedural development and review. He holds ASNT, ACCP Level III certificates in ultrasonic testing, magnetic particle testing, liquid penetrant testing, and visual testing methods, as well as being a certified weld inspector, CWI, for the American Welding Society. His certifications and memberships and committee positions, publications, are so numerous to read.

Zachary Oliphant:

It probably just makes sense that we get into this interview. It’s going to be a lot of fun. I think what you guys are going to find is Garrett’s knowledge and experience over his career is really valuable. Hopefully, you learn something from today. Maybe we start, Garrett, with how you started? Your background. How you started in the business in this industry. We’ll go from there.

Garrett Ehler:

Well, first, thanks for having me. My career started way back. It actually started in the restaurant industry after I graduated college. Kind of an interesting anecdote. Going through school, my father always told me, “Go get your business degree. Go get your business degree. That’s what you should do.” And I decided that I was going to get degrees in environmental science and psychology. And then, as soon as I got done with school, I started managing people and managing business.

Garrett Ehler:

It’s one of those hindsight is 20/20 type situation, but I started in the restaurant industry. From there, moved into heavy construction, managing an underground utilities contractor. Continued managing people, managing projects, managing operations of big projects through heavy construction. And then, got into the pole industry with the inspection. From there, actually started in a sales capacity, and realized that I gravitated towards the operations. Being out in the field and what we did on a day-to-day basis when it came to inspections.

Garrett Ehler:

Realized that I enjoyed it. I was good at it. It was a way for me to continue learning, which is super important for the inspection business, for technicians in the NDT industry. It’s that constant need for training and bettering yourself and continuing to increase your knowledge. Because as anything with technology, it’s always advancing. We should always be learning to better ourselves. But I realized that was where my strong suit was. I enjoyed it.

Garrett Ehler:

I enjoyed being out in the field and the constant having to think through issues and problem solve. That’s really what I enjoyed. As I grew with my technical background and learned from the people surrounding me, I realized I just enjoyed it that much more. Getting involved on the technical side with different committees and advancing through. Getting my Level IIs, getting my Level IIIs, and just continually learning that side of the business. I’ve just enjoyed it. And so, I naturally gravitated towards it.

Zachary Oliphant:

Garrett, your interesting background, where you’ve got a traditional academic path, and then you really moved more into this highly technical trade skill path. It’s really an interesting conversation. It’s not a standard path most folks take.

Zachary Oliphant:

As you look back on your career, maybe think about sharing a couple of moments. Either high points or low points. Just opportunities in your career where something important happened. There was some triggering event where you said, “Man, that really mattered to me.” Or, “How I think about the importance of the work I do matters.” Maybe give me some examples there?

Garrett Ehler:

Along my career, my academic path has absolutely helped to support my education as I learned on the technical path. And it’s helped me too with the professionalism. It’s helped me with my soft skills in dealing with issues as I navigated that technical path.

Garrett Ehler:

For me, a crystallizing moment when I realized that my technical ability had reached a point where I had a high level of confidence … I’ve always been a very confident person, but you start to realize that there are points that really solidify that for you and crystallize it for you in your mind. We had a huge project where one of our big customers had an arm failure. They actually had an arm fall out, break off. As they were trying to install, it fell down. Fell 40 plus feet.

Zachary Oliphant:

Wow.

Garrett Ehler:

The arm bracket broke off of the shaft. They brought us out, and it turned out to be poor weld quality. They were partial joint penetration welds that didn’t have the required penetration. And so, we were brought in to, first, figure out what had happened. It ended up being very poor weld quality by the fabricator.

Garrett Ehler:

What ended up happening … We were actually ultrasonically testing those weldments to determine what the percentage of penetration was. This was a procedure that I had developed and had tested many times and always felt very confident about the accuracy, but it was by design and estimation. The fabricator was convinced that we didn’t know what we were talking about. We didn’t know what we were doing. And that there was no way that those numbers were right.

Garrett Ehler:

And so, they decided they wanted to cut up several of those arm to shaft weldments. I happened to be in the facility as they were cutting up those weldments. Every single one, I was within plus or minus 5% of what I had estimated. At one point, their quality manager came over to me. He kind of leaned in close to me and said, “I knew you were right.” And it was one of those moments for me that caused my shoulders to be held up back a little bit further. Just a very prideful moment for me. And it made me realize that I knew what I was doing.

Zachary Oliphant:

And I imagine in a scenario like that, where a client is bringing someone like you in to make those judgment calls that have massive impacts to construction schedules, to warranty claims, to financial implications for them during construction … It’s an interesting position to be put in.

Zachary Oliphant:

Where we’re trying to be their subject matter expert, or you’re trying to be their subject matter expert, and you’re having these difficult conversations with the manufacturer. Maybe walk me through that experience a little bit. Being stuck between representing a client and a manufacturer that doesn’t believe you’re right. Trying to manage all of those emotions and relationships.

Garrett Ehler:

It can be very challenging. Over the past dozen or so years of being directly in this industry, it’s hard to not form opinions. Especially, when you’re surrounded by very intelligent people that know their business really well. You start to learn the way things are supposed to be. And it’s real easy to start forming opinions. But at the root of it all, the code, standards, and specifications are what matters.

Garrett Ehler:

This is one of the first things that I try to teach young technicians. Opinion is meaningless for what we do. It’s critically important that we’re impartial. We’re basically just a judge. We are tasked with divining where a part or a weldment or a structure or a widget … Whatever we’re looking at. We’re tasked with divining whether it meets the code or not. If it meets the code? Great. If it doesn’t meet the code? Then, that’s a non-conformance to that code.

Garrett Ehler:

That’s our job. There are times where the codes can be very complicated, and there’s some room for interpretation. Unfortunately, there are going to be people that are going to try to interpret it differently. It’s very important to use logic and to use integrity. That integrity piece is critically important, because there are going to be people out there that are going to have less integrity and are going to be willing to cut corners. That’s where our job is so hyper important.

Garrett Ehler:

One of the big things that I’ve seen over the years is there’s this dynamic in the fabrication facilities between their quality program and their production staff. The production is looking to get the material out, because that’s how the facility gets paid. Oftentimes, it’s the quality team that are looked at as a liability, because they are the roadblock to production.

Garrett Ehler:

So many facilities lose sight of that cost of quality. And that’s where it’s been enjoyable for us, being on the third-party side, to be that outside set of eyes looking in. To be able to say, “Nope. Here’s the code. This is how the code standard specifications specify that the widget needs to be built, the asset needs to be built.” We get to verify that. It’s very enjoyable.

Zachary Oliphant:

Certainly. I’m probably remiss … Because we live in the NDT world all the time. Maybe for some of the folks that could be listening, maybe we roll back a little bit. I’ll just ask a question. To you, what is NDT? Just the basic fundamentals. Why is it valuable?

Garrett Ehler:

That’s a great question. Nondestructive testing is exactly what it sounds like. It’s a way for us to test a part without destroying it. We can be able to see things that we wouldn’t have been able to see normally with just a standard visual capacity. Or be able to see inside things that, obviously, we wouldn’t be able to see inside with our eyes.

Garrett Ehler:

For example, ultrasonic testing, we are using high frequency sound waves, and shooting those high frequency sound waves inside those metallic parts, which enable us to see discontinuities or defects that are underneath the surface. The surface that we wouldn’t normally be able to see with our naked eye. With mag particle testing, we’re able to see surface-breaking flaws that we wouldn’t be able to see with our eyes.

Garrett Ehler:

This enables us to inspect parts that are still in service, and enables us to inspect structures, without having to destructively test them to see those issues, which is great. Because it enables us to leave good assets in place and not have to destroy things to be able to ensure that they’re sound. We’ve also been able to economically inspect things that we would not be able to inspect without being very intrusive.

Garrett Ehler:

For example, being able to inspect below grade corrosion using EMAT technology. We’re able to inspect for wall loss of the shaft on a direct embedded structure without having to dig down. Normally, in the past, you would have to dig down and an inspector would have to put eyes directly on that below grade area that you’re suspecting corrosion. Well, with EMAT technology, we can do that from the surface. Without having to spend a lot of time and a lot of the customer’s money to be able to assess those structures below the surface.

Zachary Oliphant:

For those clients, really their problem is below grade corrosion. They can’t visually see … You can’t see it in a patrol inspection. You can’t see it really any other way.

Garrett Ehler:

Correct.

Zachary Oliphant:

If they get severe corrosion, then they worry about a structure failing. Ultimately, that’s the concern. And so, we’re able to use this EMAT technology to solve that problem economically. Without having to excavate. Without having to do environmental damage. Very low damage to the right of way or the easements we’re working in.

Garrett Ehler:

And it’s relatively fast as well.

Zachary Oliphant:

Absolutely.

Garrett Ehler:

Much faster than sending a team out to dig up that right of way and much less obtrusive.

Zachary Oliphant:

Certainly, in excavation, you can also create your own set of damage. You can change the backfill, how it’s properly backfilled. You can do damage to below grade coatings and other things as well when you’re excavating, which creates more problems for you in the future.

Garrett Ehler:

Exactly.

Zachary Oliphant:

As you think about other value drivers of nondestructive testing technology, maybe walk me through a little bit. This thought about probability of detection. We see this sometimes with our clients where they say, “Well, you inspected it once. And so, I’m good. I’m good forever.”

Zachary Oliphant:

Really, talk to me a little bit about the value of nondestructive testing. But also, throwing that against probability of detection and inspection frequency. Maybe give me some comments there.

Garrett Ehler:

That’s a great question. Probability of detection is a touchy one. Because no inspection methodology is absolute. I should say, “Not absolutely perfect.” There’s always going to be a degree at which something could get missed. You always have that human factor involved. And this is one of the reasons why a high quality well-trained individual is so critically important. There is a very broad range of abilities out there in technicians. On the low end, probability of detection can be a problem.

Garrett Ehler:

And so, it is critically important that, one, the technicians are properly trained at a high level and that they show integrity. Because that human variable and all the distractions that can go on with the human existence, unfortunately, can be a driver for poor integrity. It’s very important that the technician themselves have high integrity and have top quality training.

Garrett Ehler:

And it’s important that we understand that each of these inspections is a snapshot in time. It’s what happened at that incident when the inspector was viewing the part or the asset. It’s important that we understand, as a customer, these assets are going to be subjected to environmental factors. Wind events, corrosive attacks, mechanical attacks. There’s any number of reasons why there can be issues that propagate in structures. And so, continued monitoring is very important.

Zachary Oliphant:

I imagine too, with continuance of inspection or frequency of inspection … Especially, if you’re documenting well those inspections. Over time, you can start building a model on degradation. You can start building models based on your whole knowledge set on where you should focus your dollars and those sorts of things.

Zachary Oliphant:

Maybe walk me through a little bit. You have this big bucket of inspections. How you can use those to really narrow the focus. Where maybe you go do something more intrusive. Or something destructive. Maybe give me an example of that. Where you’re trying to take all of this data set that you’re collecting from a group of field inspections, and then trying to synthesize that data and do something with it.

Garrett Ehler:

Well, I would say the best example we have is going to be on the lighting side of the business. At this point, we have inspected thousands upon thousands of lighting structures. We know that with lighting structures … Because of that data set, we know that of all the lighting structures out there in the world, we’re probably going to see F-rated structures 7% of the time.

Garrett Ehler:

That is where having that good data set is so critically important, because we can very accurately be able to tell our clients exactly what they should expect and exactly where their concerns should be. We know that the Gulf coast regions … Anywhere near water is going to have a higher concentration of corrosive attacks. We know that Midwest, where it’s windy, they’re going to have their issues there.

Garrett Ehler:

Up north, where they’re battling ice and snow, you’re going to have corrosive attacks due to salt. Anytime you have a bigger data set like that, it’s going to enable us to really go in and crunch the numbers and be able to give the customer really good information about that data.

Zachary Oliphant:

Absolutely. For those that don’t know, because we talk this world every day, an F-rated structure in our world is one that’s about to fall over. And so, as Garrett mentions, 7% of all the lighting structures out there are about to fall over. If that number doesn’t alarm you to some degree, it should. Because that’s about what we find.

Garrett Ehler:

Especially, considering the number of lighting structures that are out there in the world.

Zachary Oliphant:

Absolutely. Millions and millions and millions. We’ve inspected millions of assets in Exo’s history. When you can start synthesizing that data … I think that’s what a lot of folks don’t quite understand. As you mentioned earlier, the inspector’s job is to collect data and throw their interpretation against the code standard or spec.

Zachary Oliphant:

The inspector’s job is not to decide what to do with those assets or those components. It’s black or white, as well as you can within the code standards of specs, to make a judgment call. And then, fundamentally, it’s up to engineering, or it’s up to the manufacturer, or it’s up to the client. Or it’s up to someone like Exo, that’s going to come in with all of our expertise and say, “Here’s where we believe you should spend money. Here’s where we believe that defect should be dealt with.” Try to prioritize those.

Garrett Ehler:

The remediation solution …

Zachary Oliphant:

Goes well beyond just the inspection.

Garrett Ehler:

Yep.

Zachary Oliphant:

The inspection is just the data collection piece. You have to get that right, so you know where to focus your time and effort. But that piece, I think a lot of folks get confused about that. That, “The inspector should tell me what to do.” No. The inspector’s telling you what you’re finding. Ultimately, from there, it’s a conversation with usually engineering or clients to understand, “Is it something that’s critical or not?”

Garrett Ehler:

Now, there are some cases where the inspector can assist in telling, “How can we solve this problem? What would it take for it to be able to meet those code standards and specifications?” We see this a lot when it comes to analyzing WPS’s and procedures. What would it take to get this WPS, this weld procedure specification, in line with the needs of the code? We often help along those lines with the customer.

Zachary Oliphant:

You mentioned code, standards, and specs quite a bit. That’s a world you and all the guys that work for you live in. Walk me through what those mean to you. In the sense of … What do they mean as an application of a standard?

Zachary Oliphant:

Maybe give us all the way out to this macro level view of code, standards, and specs. A little bit on their history and a little bit on their application. How they’re applied across lots of industries. I think that would be some valuable insight, Garrett.

Garrett Ehler:

Well, codes and standards specifically are written by governing bodies. Codes and standards, for the most part, started around the turn of the century in the industrial age.

Zachary Oliphant:

Turn of the century. You mean turn of the 1900s.

Garrett Ehler:

Turn of the 19th century, as far as the Industrial Revolution, which is funny to me. Because I look back to my history classes in school, thinking, “When am I ever going to use this?” Now, I teach about the Industrial Revolution and how that impacted the codes and standards that for welding, for boilers, and pressure vessels. It all started in the late 1800s, when we stopped producing goods in houses and we started producing them in factories. We started producing these boilers and pressure vessels used to heat and power all these machines and mechanics and everything that went on.

Garrett Ehler:

And in the late 1800s, these boilers and pressure vessels, because they were all built differently, they started to explode. And that caused the American Society of Mechanical Engineers to develop the first boiler and pressure vessel code. I believe it was adopted in like 1895. In 1905, it was adopted across the land in all the states and was made into law. Around the same time, in the early 1900s, the American Weld Society was formed to bring standards for workmanship as far as welding and welding consumables. Everything that has to do with welding.

Garrett Ehler:

At the same time ASTM, the American Society for Testing Materials, was started to establish standards for materials. These standards have morphed over the years. They come out with new revisions. Some standards come out with revisions every five years, every 10 years, or as needed. It really depends on the governing body that is working on those standards. And those standards give us a guide for workmanship. It’s a minimum line that the workmanship has to meet to be viable to that standard.

Garrett Ehler:

Then, we have specifications. Specifications are written by engineers and by purchasing agents that dictate how they want a material or an asset built. Those are going to reference back to codes and standards. A code and standard doesn’t really become relevant until it’s written into the contractual documents based on the specification, which I always think is interesting. Because there’s lots of different standards out there.

Garrett Ehler:

There’s the American Petroleum Institute standard, which is a great standard, but it’s worthless if you’re working on structural work where AWS D1.1 standard is viable. But these standards are our guide for how the workmanship of the asset is supposed to be built. And it’s critically important to us, and to me, personally. I’ve gotten involved. I’m on several AWS committees that assist in writing and changing those standards. And it’s a fascinating dynamic in how it works.

Garrett Ehler:

Unfortunately, it does take time. It takes a good amount of time. I always wondered, when I first started diving into these standards, why it took five years for them to do a revision. And in this digital age, why can’t we move quicker? And then, I got involved in it. I see some of the dynamics, some of the bureaucracy that goes into developing these standards.

Garrett Ehler:

Now, I understand five years is barely enough time. It’s pretty crazy, but that’s how important we feel the code of standards are. We want to get involved in helping dictate them. We want to use our industry knowledge to be able to influence them, make them stronger, and allow them to be the guide that they need to be for our industry in particular.

Zachary Oliphant:

I think it’s interesting. We hear comments from fabricators all the time, “We want to do it a different way.” Or, “We have a better way.” Sometimes you can evaluate that to say, “Is it better?” I think the challenge that we always see is, “Do you believe you’re better than the 100 plus year history of AWS? Or the 100 plus year history of ASNT?” All of these other governing bodies that built these codes and standards on the backs of these incidents. Boilers blowing up and killing people and welds failing and all of this sort of stuff.

Zachary Oliphant:

It’s an interesting question. When you ask someone, “Do you believe more than the whole AWS society and committees?” Certainly, we see folks from time to time try to go above standard. But normally, we see the opposite. We are seeing people trying to go below the standards of the industry, which is always concerning.

Garrett Ehler:

Especially, considering that most codes are the minimum viable standard as a benchmark. I think most of our customers would like to see things that are above standard and/or built better than that minimum viable standard.

Zachary Oliphant:

I know that’s always an interesting discussion we have. Because we help a lot of clients write specs, which is, as you mentioned, that synthesis of the commercial side. Integrating the codes and standards into the commercial contract. If you don’t have a good spec, as you mentioned, it creates a lot of loopholes. And if you don’t have a good spec, where you’ve got conflicting direction that a fabricator could use, that can create a lot of issues as well.

Zachary Oliphant:

You mentioned, Garrett, this time on fabricators. To me, it’d be interesting to unpack maybe a story around your time spent in factories watching fabricators. You hit on this a little bit. The conflict sometimes you have with the fabricator and the quality department. Maybe give me an example of where you saw someone that really wasn’t using integrity and how you could get there.

Zachary Oliphant:

It’s always surprising when we see somebody in a factory, or in the field for that matter, where we’re out doing joint inspections, that is pencil whipping something. Doing something that’s incorrect. Maybe give me an example of that, where you’ve seen that in your career?

Garrett Ehler:

Well, it’s definitely a challenge on the fabrication side. I don’t envy most quality departments. There are a few quality departments out there where the upper management truly values quality. That makes its way down to the shop floor and it’s very evident. But then, there are other fabricators where they talk about quality and they say that it’s important, but you can tell through the actions that it truly just is words.

Garrett Ehler:

It puts a very troublesome dynamic in play for the quality team. They are put at odds with the production side of the facility and production is trying to get material out the door. They are at all costs wanting to get the product built, get it finaled, and get it shipped so that they can get paid. And in a lot of cases, that’s what the customer wants. The customer wants their product, but the customer wants their product right.

Garrett Ehler:

The quality team, that’s their job. Ensuring that those materials are meeting the code standards, specifications. Both the customer specifications, and a lot of cases, their own internal fabricator specifications. In some cases, it can put a lot of pressure on quality members, quality management. Especially, when they are understaffed and overworked, so to speak.

Garrett Ehler:

They’re having a lot of external pressure to get material out the door. I’ve witnessed, on multiple occasions, members of the quality team pencil whipping reports or falsifying reports. Or production leads saying, “You need to just sign off on this as okay.” Even though they know it’s not meeting the specification or the codes that are enforced.

Garrett Ehler:

I’ve also seen situations where, for a lack of time, something as simple as an eye exam was being falsified. We actually witnessed a scenario during a fabricator pre-qualification audit where the customer was there. The customer was there with us, we were performing the audit, and we uncovered that a bunch of their documentation was actually dated for two days after the day we were performing the audit.

Zachary Oliphant:

I guess if you’re going to lie, at least make sure your dates line up.

Garrett Ehler:

The quality manager admitted that he had falsified the documents that he was planning on performing the eye examinations, but wanted all the documentation to be right for the audit. Unfortunately, he ended up being terminated from the facility for numerous other issues that were observed. Because it’s a scenario of getting overwhelmed with all the issues.

Garrett Ehler:

Almost getting beaten down to the point that you just give up on the quality. That’s a nightmare scenario for a quality person. Our technicians have to be top quality. They have to show integrity 100% of the time. Without fail. Because as soon as that crack is in the foundation, as we know, even with welding … Once you have a crack, it’s not going to fix itself.

Zachary Oliphant:

Yep.

Garrett Ehler:

It’s only going to get worse. The same thing goes with integrity.

Zachary Oliphant:

Absolutely. It’s a tough world that inspector lives in, from that perspective, where they’ve got to be right all the time. They are doing that at the end of a long day in the heat. Whatever the environmental conditions are. Freezing cold. We have inspectors that work in both environments. You’re right. At the end of the day, integrity is everything for those folks. And it’s, “What are you going to do when someone’s not looking over your shoulder? Are you going to do the right things?”

Zachary Oliphant:

Maybe talk a little bit, Garrett, on historically what some of the technologies the deliverable is? This whole discussion about integrity. What deliverable the inspectors are usually providing the clients. Maybe touch a little bit on some of the new technologies on those records and deliverables, where it’s taking some of that away from the inspector in the field and giving a little bit of a better record. Maybe go into some of those details.

Garrett Ehler:

Traditionally, an inspector, as he’s performing his inspection, he’s got an inspection report. Most traditional inspectors are taking copious handwritten notes. Documenting every single thing that they see and everything that’s required by their inspection. They’re then taking that and generating a formal report. And that has morphed over the years to guys using computers and directly writing their reports.

Garrett Ehler:

We still have technicians that are stuck in their old ways. That like their handwritten notes. They carry around their notebook, and that’s what they heavily lean on. As we’ve grown over the years, we’ve seen the need to automate that. To create applications to give some ease to our inspectors. One, to make them more efficient, and to make them more accurate.

Garrett Ehler:

Because one of the things that we saw a lot of in the past was … That transition from their notebook to the report, you’ve got clerical errors. Or if you’re like me and your handwriting is that of a doctor, it’s too easy to make errors. And so, create an application to be able to harvest the data in the field has been critically important. And then, using our Exo Portal as a delivery mechanism for a customer’s asset has just been a really great thing. A great advancement.

Garrett Ehler:

Because in this digital age, we’ve got more and more customers that are no longer relying on paper reports. They’re wanting to be able to go in and see their assets in a digital format that’s easy to use, and that gives them accurate, complete data. And so, the conjunction of the application and the delivery mechanism with the Exo Portal is just a huge upgrade from what inspectors were doing in the past.

Zachary Oliphant:

Now, also walk me through a little bit on technologies like phased array, ultrasonics, and EMAT. What kind of export we can get out of the technology that we’re deploying?

Garrett Ehler:

That’s a great question. Traditionally, with conventional UT and with mag particle and some of the original methods of NDT, we relied heavily on the inspector’s documentation. An inspector would analyze what they saw, would analyze the indications of discontinuities and report those. With both EMAT technology, phased array technology, and advanced UT, we’re able to do encoded scans, which give us a repeatable recordable scan. As high level inspectors, we can go back and analyze over and over again, which gives us a much more repeatable inspection. It increases that probability of detection.

Garrett Ehler:

It’s a really great thing. It also enables us to come back at a later date and put programs in place that enable us to look at an asset year after year, and be able to directly compare that data. To be able to see, “Has there been any changes in what we saw in 2019 compared to 2020? Compared to ’21? Compared to ’22?” That gives us, like we talked about earlier, as far as being able to analyze our data and to be able to give the customer a more granular look at their system and at each of their assets. We can better predict the lifespan of those components and those assets.

Zachary Oliphant:

Absolutely. You hit a little bit on your background as an educator of nondestructive testing, related to your work with Texas NDT, and all of your work with Exo over the years. Walk me through what you would tell a young technician that wants to get into the field today. Some of the advice you’d give them. Or if you look back over your career and said, “Hey. What would I tell myself on day one that I’ve learned? That I wish I would’ve known 10, 15, 20 years ago?”

Garrett Ehler:

Well, I would say first and foremost, always just keep a thirst for knowledge. Our field is incredibly reliant on technology and technology moves at a very fast pace. If at any point you become complacent in your thirst for knowledge, and thirst for learning and advancement in the field, you are going to struggle every single day. You should work to learn something more and something deeper in your field.

Garrett Ehler:

The other thing is surround yourself with the right people. I’m a firm believer … You and I have talked about this a bunch over the years. The analogy that you are the mix of the five people you spend the most time with. In my life, I’ve seen that in my personal life. I’ve seen that in my business life, from a technical standpoint. This is one of the things that I love about Exo. We have surrounded ourselves with the best of the best. The best people in each of their respective fields.

Garrett Ehler:

It’s been an amazing thing to be able to harvest that knowledge from each and every one of them and to be able to lean on them when you have questions. And so, that’s the big thing that I would tell somebody that’s newer coming into this. One, surround yourself with great people. Smart people. People that are going to lift you up and make you better. Two, don’t be afraid to ask questions of them.

Garrett Ehler:

This is one of the biggest things that I tell every single student that comes through my classroom or that works underneath me. Don’t be afraid to say, “I don’t know.” If somebody asks you a question and you don’t know the answer to it, it’s okay to say, “I don’t know.” Even if it’s a customer. What you’ve got to do is you’ve got to find the answer to that question and then learn from it yourself.

Garrett Ehler:

I think that is just a critical component that so many people these days forget about. Either they get too prideful or they don’t want to admit that they don’t know something. It is critically important that you swallow that pride, go find somebody that has that information, and then learn from it. That will keep you moving forward and keep you moving ahead. It will cause great things to happen.

Zachary Oliphant:

From my perspective as well, what I love seeing is when you and other technical folks in our business are engaged in … I’ll call it sometimes very animated discussions on, “What is the right answer?” Trying to get to the right answer for either us internally or for our client. I would emphasize, especially, in today’s world, where we’ve set up these echo chambers of everyone thinking the same way we think, and everyone doing the same way we do.

Zachary Oliphant:

We’ve seen such great value coming out of dissension of opinion. Respectful dissension of opinion. “Hey. I’m looking at this, this way. You’re looking at this, this way. You’re looking at this, this way. How do we synthesize that into the right answer?” That’s ultimately what we’re all trying to do. I would implore anybody who listens to this. Don’t lose that. Don’t lose that ability.

Garrett Ehler:

Absolutely. I think for any technician coming into this field, be very prideful. Be prideful about your work. There have been times in my past where I’ve been a little bit too prideful and stuck on that I was right about something. It’s critically important that when you do have dissension of ideas, you need to have an open logical discussion. Be open to the fact that you need to learn from it. Every one of those experiences is a learning moment where you can get better from it. Take ideas from others.

Garrett Ehler:

This is one of the really great things about what we have going. On a daily basis, we have a team of technical experts that works together to solve problems. That’s one of the most enjoyable things about what I get to do on a regular basis. Not just being able to lead that discussion, but to also sit back and listen to those other super intelligent, smart people. Their perspective. Allowing their perspective to help me broaden my understanding of all the different things that we do. It’s amazing.

Zachary Oliphant:

I think the last question I have for you today, Garrett, is … I’ve had a lot of pride watching you develop young people. Maybe walk me through what that means to you? To take somebody that’s coming maybe straight out of high school or straight out of a trade school and grow their career. Maybe give me some examples there. I have to imagine that’s got to be fulfilling to watch?

Garrett Ehler:

It is. Absolutely. Probably, some of my most prideful moments. I’ve got two individuals that started with me from nothing. Didn’t even know what NDT was. One, in particular, heard me speaking at a trade school and decided he wanted to go down that route. He came through, took a bunch of my classes. It was one of those people that used me as part of their network of people that he leaned on.

Garrett Ehler:

This guy probably at least once a month was calling me, asking me questions, asking for guidance, and really used me as part of his network. Went out into the field, learning the business, really diving into his particular niche. About four years had gone by. He actually came back to me looking for me to be his Level III. He was going to start his own one-man show and start performing inspection on his own.

Zachary Oliphant:

Awesome.

Garrett Ehler:

I’ve now had two cases of that where inspectors that I taught and nurtured have come back and have started their own inspection businesses. I’m creating our competitors, so to speak, but willingly. It’s been an amazing ride to be able to do that. To see somebody grow as a fledgling NDT technician into their own, learning their niche business, and taking that broad NDT background that I give them and really dialing it in has been very fulfilling.

Garrett Ehler:

And then, on the other side. Internally, seeing some of our own technicians that have grown over the years. We’ve got guys that have been in this industry as long as I have, and have grown so substantially. Getting their credentials and broadening their credentials. At this point, we’ve got three or four guys that have gone out to get their Level IIIs and different methods and broadened their horizon.

Garrett Ehler:

We’ve got numerous NACE inspectors. Too many CWIs to count. And so, it’s just always fulfilling to see our team growing in size. And then, also growing as individuals, as individual inspectors, and being a part of that nurturing. Being able to call on somebody and ask them questions, because you know they’ve got a specific subset of knowledge that you can lean on. It creates some really good synergies in our group. And I love that.

Zachary Oliphant:

Awesome. Well, Garrett, I tell you, I appreciate the time. I hope anyone listening, whether you’re an NDT technician or utility or an asset owner, learned something from today. Obviously, all of your knowledge and experience is really valuable to our Exo business. I know you’ve impacted a lot of people in our company positively and their career development.

Garrett Ehler:

I appreciate that.

Zachary Oliphant:

Really appreciate the time. You look forward to the next couple of decades.

Garrett Ehler:

Yep.

Zachary Oliphant:

Continue to learn. Continue to get better. Making sure that we’re all following this mantra of integrity is everything. Because it’s so critically important.

Garrett Ehler:

Sounds great.

Zachary Oliphant:

Thank you.

Garrett Ehler:

I appreciate it. Thank you.